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Curcumin the Nitty Gritty

Hi All!

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the details of Curcumin dosing and types. I recently started taking it last week and have come to find there are a wide arrange of types and the dosing on the containers might be less than what one would want to take for CML or other conditions l. I was excited to start it quickly so I first just want to my local convenience store and picked up a common brand name there. After doing some more research I decided to purchase "Doctors BEST High Absorption C3 and BioPERINE" from Amazon which I am taking now. The dosing on the container suggests 2 capsules daily with food, this however is only 1g where most research articles suggest 6g or 8g as being effective in terms of cancer. I took only the recommended amount the first day just to make sure I did not have any kind of strange reaction. Now I have upped my dose to 3g (6 capsules) I take them all at once simply because I am always on the go and it would be too hard for me to space them out. I was considering doubling my dose 6g (12 capsules) and taking half with lunch half with dinner but this seems like a crazy amount. I just wanted to see how other members here are taking there Curcumin and figured this thread would be useful for those considering starting it. 

Hi John,

As you discovered, there are many different types and brands being marketed. Most of the marketing is hype and those brands useless for any medicinal benefit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28597702

I have pretty much tried them all in my early days back in 2011 and 2012. I have long settled on one brand which has data behind it in terms of absorption and effectiveness. Sabinsa is a reputable company which makes C3 complex with bioperine. The issue with Curcumin is low absorption and metabolizes very fast (gone quickly from the blood). So key is to take enough to make a difference.

Companies such as Doctors best and others use Sabinsa's Curcumin formulation to create their branded version - usually in 500 mg capsules or 1,000 mg captlets. But check the label to be sure.  I buy mine from Physician Naturals who supplies C3 complex to M.D. Anderson where ongoing research continues. I buy the 1,000 mg version. In  this way if I want to take six grams, its six caplets. Physician Naturals is Houston based which is why I suspect they are a supplier. There is nothing  special about Physician Naturals - just convenience in my case.

Unfortunately, therapeutic dose required for cancer to be affected is costly. You will go through caplets pretty quick at six or eight grams a day. As I am at PCRU, I have cut back my Curcumin to about 4 grams a day. But I would recommend to anyone who is just starting CML therapy or are above 0.1% PCR, to take a full 8 grams per day spread throughout the day initially (with or without food, although a bit of fat may help absorption). Once CML is under control and TKI dose is reduced without loss of response, then lowering Curcumin should be o.k. to try. Keep in mind Curcumin is not a cure. But studies do show it augments TKI therapy by slowing cancer cell division (down regulates key genes responsible for rapid cancer growth). Slowing cancer down so TKI's can kill the cells is the idea behind taking Curcumin.

Hopefully you will notice Curcumin's other benefits such as pain relief (similar to Aspirin) and nicer skin. I look a good 10 years younger than I am. It's a pretty impressive spice.

Your approach in splitting your daily dose in two is a good one. Take your first dose when you first wake up in the morning. It is a mild blood thinner and will help your heart start the day.

 

 

 

Thanks Scuba for your great input!

 

In your opinion do you think taking 6g of Curcumin in one dose would cause any dangerous amount of blood thinning? This is of course assuming a person has normal platelets, is not on any other blood thinners, is not taking daily asprin, ect.

 

Whats your theory on taking Curcumin with the Sprycel? My first thought is that it might increase the amount of dasatinib in your bloodstream which in the case of trying to reduce side affects and such would be a bad thing. Maybe I got the chemistry wrong on that though.

John,

Curcumin is not a drug. It is a polyphenol from a root that has been eaten for thousands of years. It does not cause blood thinning anywhere near like Warfarin or Coumadin. It's not that powerful a blood thinner.

I have taken six grams in one dose, but I personally think it's a waste of money to take that much at one time - it will be metabolized very fast and the rest of the day you have little Curcumin doing its thing. Spreading out Curcumin is best. Take two grams at a time. Carry it with you in a little pouch and pop a couple when out and about with water. Or just take four in the morning (two at at time) and four when you get home - two first thing around dinner and then two before sleep. If your PCR is below 0.1%, you may not even need eight grams. Six or four grams may be enough. No one really knows. Much of what we are doing here is guessing - but guessing based on good science that shows it "should" work.

Curucmin + piperine will not increase the amount of Dasatinib in your blood - because Dasatinib is a "salt" and absorbs readily - all of it. Dasatinib also metabolizes pretty fast so no issue there.

Also:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162943/

The article above is how I first learned about taking Sprycel with Curcumin and that it might be very good together.

One final comment - taking Sprycel with Curcumin probably lessens side effects not increase them - especially headache.

My local healthcare store also recommended the same brand as Scuba mentioned because of quality and concentration levels. He spoke very highly about the health benefits of curcumin for all cancers.

This all makes way more sense now! I wish this stuff would easily absorb and be effective in the root form. Would be so much easier just to chop some up and throw it in when Im cooking my dinner. 

 

Followup: Had the idea to just sprinkle the capsule contents on food. I tasted a little and it tastes like a very potent mustard which I am not a fan of to begin with...12 capsules it is. 

John,

Consider having your vitamin D level checked. If you are low (i.e. <30 ng/ml), you may be handicapping your immune system from naturally controlling CML.

https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20111004/low-vitamin-d-levels-linked-t...

Vitamin D 'activates' our immune system . It is vital in fact to 'turn on' T-cells. Low vitamin D inhibits this. This is one of the reasons why people get the flu in winter and not summer. (low sunshine = low vitamin D).

Getting your vitamin D level up to around 70 ng/ml (> 50ng/ml) has anti-cancer properties. That is where I maintain my vitamin D level.

But first you need to verify your level is low. You do not want to take too much vitamin D3 as a supplement if you don't know where your baseline is currently.

(my goal has been to use TKI's to lower CML enough so my body can regain the upper hand naturally - this is my personal theory. Assuming I have not lost all ability to fight CML via my own immune system and that I developed CML because of an event that is now gone (like radation from CT-scans), I wanted to make sure that factors which help my immune system are maximized.   Vitamin D is one of them. An important one.

(p.s. I haven't had the flu or cold in years since supplementing with Vitamin D. I used to get a cold and flu every single year. No more. I wonder why? Never take flu shots either. My vitamin D level at the start was 17 ng/ml. Now I keep my D level around 70. Never below 50, sometimes it gets up to 80 and I cut back my supplement dose. After years of doing this, I found two doses which work in summer and winter).

Hi John

My son has cml - dxd 12 years ago. About 5 years ago I started reading about turmeric and pepper.  So I bought some organic turmeric (1lb = $11) and some pepper from the local store.  I mixed them up well and then made capsules from them.  1 teaspoon of this mix is about 5 capsules.  Steven takes 5 caps every day along with Gleevec.  Over the years there have been a few times that he stopped the turmeric caps, and each time his PCR went up...as soon as he starts the turmeric capsules again, his PCR drops.  He has twice been undetectable for over a year while on these capsules.  Its also got rid of his back pain.  He had tried a couple of different brands of the gelcap and capsules that are sold ready made, but they had little or no effect -  not like  the home made capsules - and were also much more expensive.  Also, I appreciate all the information here!

Maybe I'll try this.  What ratio do you use for the turmeric/pepper mix?  Where did you buy the capsules from and what size of capsule do you use?

Thanks,

Kirk

I do not take any vitamin D supplements but I spend a ton of time in the sun even in the winter I travel twice a month spend a few hours in the sun every other week. I have had mine tested many times throughout the year. Lowest I have resulted in dead of winter was 57 but usually mine is around 65. I will have her retest again at my next PCR in a three weeks just to make sure nothing has changed. 

Very interesting, how many mg per day of Curcumin is in the 5 caps? It sounds a lot easier than 12 (1 cap = 500mg) I take now. Do you know the size of the caps? I feel like the ones I have purchased are pretty large as it is I just cant imagine how much larger they could be or how the same size cap could be so much more potent. 

You need to eat up to 400 grams of turmeric per day to get 8 grams of Curcumin, as kitchen turmeric contains just 2% Curcumin, it would be impossible to eat enough to get the same dose. (In the article "Curcumin content of Turmeric and Curry powders" the average Curcumin content in 9 samples of turmeric powder was 1.5% (percentage of dry weight)
 

Thanks Sandrea for shedding some light on this, that makes sense!

The capsules are size 00.  The ratio is 1 x tsp turmeric to 1/8th tsp pepper.  I buy empty capsules from eBay.  I am not saying that this way is perfect or that it will work for everyone - just that it works for Steven and is keeping him in PCRU.  Everyone is different and it feels as if we got fortunate in finding the 'mix' that works for him.  When I saw that it was working, it was really exciting and I think its important to share even though its not going to work for everyone's needs.

 

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Thanks for the info!