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Tumeric/curcumin

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Hi I have read that lots of you take this supplement, my doctor says it's all rubbish and nothing should be taken with the gleevec as it may interfere,(that is my second doc,the first was all for it)however ,that is what he says,I take vit D ,B ,C probiotics and hyaluronic acid the latter for my knee,my husband swears it's great (he is a vet and has treated horses with it)I have to say it seems to have helped.so now the turmeric/curcumin, Which are good brands and what should they contain,some tips please
Thanks Harriet

Most Md docs poo poo supplements for some reason. I have done research on Curcumin and also read what has been said on thi board and have begun taking it. Not sure what you can get in Norway but I consulted with my health food expert and take the brand Doctors Best which has something called Meriva in it. Additionally I take D with vit k, a B complex, a really good multi vit and mineral. Going to begin magnesium and zinc as suggested on this board. Do your research and trust your own intuition!

I have just ordered some curcumin, can anyone tell me when the best time to take it would be.

I take Bosutinib in the morning with breakfast then following a recent vitamin D level check which came back at a very lowly 12, I also now take vitamins D3 and K2 mid morning. Should I take curcumin at the same time as the vitamins or would it be better at any other time?

Grateful for any advice, thank you.

I take Curcumin (two grams) first thing in the morning with a glass or two of water. It is an anti-inflammatory and provides a very mild anti-coagulation effect (similar to aspirin). First thing in the morning is when your blood is thicker (overnight dehydration) and activity level is in sudden increase. It's just a good time to add some heart attack insurance. No guarantees of course - just stacking the deck in our favor.

https://myheartsisters.org/2009/06/04/monday-morning-heart-attacks/

 

Hi Harriet,

I too am confused. I see on this website so many taking Curcumin. I had a long conversation with the oncology pharmacist at Sloan and she strongly encouraged me NOT to take it. I then sent her some of the articles Scuba had referred to and this is the answer I received this morning from her. So I am so tentative about it.

 

This data was interesting as an early proof of concept.

Of note, this analysis is ex-vivo.  Essentially this concept/theory arose from studies in a petri dish environment that mimics some of the cellular function pathways seen in CML.

It is tough to translate this to clinical practice, as this environment is a simulation, a "perfect and predictable cellular world" with carefully chosen features to not skew results (quite the opposite of an actual human body). There also does not seem to be any follow up after 2004 (this is an incomplete study).

Additionally, the doses/regimen needed to show any kinetic differences are super small and do not reflect what may, in theory, work in a person since the cellular environment is so microscopic and nowhere  near as complex as an animal or person.

Usually these types of studies need to be employed in animal models, followed by early phase I in humans to suggest clinical benefit in man.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162943/

This is a study done using mice and human cancer cells testing Curcumin with dasatnib on colon cancer. The results were very encouraging.

Your pharmonoclogy is absolutely correct in that a double blind clinical trial would be needed to be definitive (more or less). We'll likely never see a clinical trial (no money in it).

I continue to take Curcumin and will always do so. I don't require a clinical trial result to give me confidence that there is benefit. I understand the impact that Curcumin has on the key cancer promoting pathways that Curcumin down regulates (i.e. JAK-2, hedgehog, and related).

It is true that achieving therapeutic levels of Curcumin in the blood is an issue. Curcumin does not absorb very well. Most curcumin's I took had no impact on me as indicated by joint pain relief. Only curcumin that had bioperine (pepper) made my joint issues disappear (arthritis). This gave me a sense that curcumin was getting into the blood. Couple this with the fact that my PCR was very slow trending down until I started curcumin.

This is just my experience. You have to make your own decision. I suspect your concern is significant and so best to follow the advice of your doctors and avoid Curcumin or anything else that is not clinically tested. One does not need curcumin to have successful TKI response. I take curcumin because I expect to stop taking dasatinib soon and it is my hope (and it is only hope) that curcumin and the other things I do will keep me in remission without a toxic drug. And besides - not having arthritis is o.k.

 

Thanks for your thoughts Scuba! I’ve learned that the Curcumin also has effects on some other meds I take so I’m wondering, if it enhances the way the Gleevec works and other meds should I reduce the amount of the meds to accommodate The Curcumin? What are your thoughts?

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/104/11/4685?sso-checked=true

I would continue to take your meds as prescribed.

Regarding Curcumin - separating the time (curcmin in morning, meds at night or reversed) will insure minimal interaction (or none at all).

Usually allowing two hours after taking Curcumin, it has left the digestive tract and metabolized.

Hey Scuba,

I recently went to a training at work and the doctor who presented was interesting. He said every chronic condition is related to inflammation then went on to say if physical inflammation is left uncontrolled, it will not only lead to physical health conditions but even mental health conditions. He went way above my head and got into the molecular reasons why. He urged everyone to take measures to reduce inflammation for optimal health...through diet, exercise and meditation which leads me to my question. Are you aware of any adverse interactions/reactions between curcumin and full dose Tasigna?

Thanks for your help. Why do you think the oncologist is so against it ?

Ignorance.

Ha that’s a good one! How about money? The big pharmaceutical companies that charge thousands for the meds wouldn’t be happy! Gleevec in generic form is $35,000 monthly! Thank goodness I have insurance!

What pharmacy fills your imatinib prescription?!!  I get mine from CVS Specialty and my last fill was billed at $5,259.98 for 30 days at 300mg per day.

How can they justify such a high charge to your insurance company?  Do they deliver your meds in a gold plated box? wink

Curcumin is not water soluble. Do not use only water if you want to use as much of it as possible.
The only curcumin supplements that can be administered with water are:
- Theracurmin - from Natural Factors. It's the best. You can also find Source Naturals, Integrative Therapeutics, Bioceuticals. Theracurmin is so soluble that after I break the capsule and put the powder in a glass of water, it stays suspended and does not settle on the bottom.
- Curcumin by the NovaSol-micelle method from Solgar (Full Spectrum). The others (Puritan's Pride) are not too great.
- Curcumin Curcuwin - but it does not appear in any research on cancer.
Curcumin will always be taken with the meals to increase the effectiveness or with coconut or olive oil.
Curcumin is very, very "personalized". What do I mean with this?
If we have 2 flu patients and the doctor prescribes the same antibiotic, there is a 90% chance that they can heal using the same antibiotic. If two patients with the same disease are prescribed the same type of curcumin supplement, they are likely, I think, about 50% does not fit.
I realized and checked this over the years with the people in my entourage who took curcumin supplements. Curcumin are the most powerful natural anti-inflammatory and one of the most cytotoxic anti-cancer drugs, but does not match the same brand of curcumin all over the world. You will always find a good curcumin supplement for your illness, but you have to be lucky to get it right from the first attempt. In general, you should look for it .
More the effects of curcumin supplements differ greatly from one to another.
Curcumin Longvida is exceptional for Alzheimer, but you will not find it in any study about cancer. Curcumin made by the Meriva method is particularly effective for osteoarthritis, bone diseases, diabetes and colon cancers, but does not appear in the studies about blood cancers.
As you all know, there is a big difference between cancer and leukemia in terms of treatment.
This is also true for natural treatments of cancers and leukemias . A natural treatment used in cancer will not harm us, those with leukemia, but it is not known how much it will help us.
The most used curcumins in scientific studies (Pubmed, ScienceDaily, Science Direct, GreenMedInfo, ReserchGate, Tandfoline) for cancers are:
- Curcumin C3 complex, patented in 1995, the most used and studied in cancers treatments. Most medical medical studies are about complex C3.
- Curcumin BCM 95. This is most often used by me. It is perfectly natural and does not use pepper for absorption, but an oil produced from the turmeric root. I've used C3 for a long time and I think it's very good but it's got pepper and I can not take big quantities (10-12 grams) for a very long time. I use the BCM 95, SuperbioCurcumin from Life Extension to help keep my analyzes under control and I still help with IBS, osteoarthritis in the spine , macular degeneration, low blood sugar and cholesterol, and especially give me a very good mood that C3 did not give me before. Not only does it focus me , but I feel tonic and good-humored . In addition , the C3 complex stay 3-4 hours in the body and requires "refueling" , but he BCM95 stays in the body for at least 8 hours and I take it less often.
- Theracurmin, is produced by the Japanese (the Canadians at Natural Factors just "wrap" it up ) and used in all medical studies made by the Japanese. The Japanese have a big problem with cancer (we do not discuss the reasons) and treat it more carefully and with greater care for patients than the rest of the world. Studies in UCLA show that Theracurmin passes the barrier and reaches the brain, making it very useful for Alzheimer's. The vast majority of curcumin supplements, unfortunately, remain in the large intestine and are quickly eliminated.

I too must get my Gleevec from a specialty pharmacy. I’m not certain how much they actually receive from my insurance. I know for people who have no insurance there are programs to help with the cost. But it is outrageous and we are taken advantage of because what is the alternative, not take a drug that keeps us alive?

thank you for all of the information you provide on this forum.  i spoke to my oncologist today (who is Indian) and he said instead of taking the turmeric/circumin capsule supplement, to get turmeric in its natural form at an Indian grocery.  He said that he and his family take turmeric every day in their food, used as a spice or additive.  He does not like the stearic acid and/or other agents in the capsules that may (or may not) interfere with dasatinib.  I am now on the hunt for an Indian grocery in my area where I can get some nice natural turmeric! 

Hi, I’ve thought of doing that instead of the capsules but how much would you need to eat or use in food to make a difference?

A lot. There are about 200mg of curcumin in one teaspoon turmeric, give or take. I’d prefer not to eat 5 or 10 spoons of turmeric a day if you wanted a gram or two of curcumin. 

If one takes Tumeric powder don’t you need the black Pepper for absorption?

Yes.

https://nutritionfacts.org/2015/02/05/why-pepper-boosts-turmeric-blood-l...

Two problems with the turmeric powder that your doctor recommended :
1. Turmeric curcumin content is 2-6%.
Do the math yourself, how many dozens of turmeric spoons do you have to take for 8 grams of curcumin .
Why 8 grams? .... Under 8 grams, after ingestion, curcumin was not found in the blood. See:
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918227/
There are many studies that say the same, at least 8 grams to get the necessary concentration in the blood and noticeable effect.
If you want, I'll send you the links.
In fact, for cancer and leukemia, you need 10-12 grams per day for treatment to be effective.
2. Turmeric contains 2.19% oxalates .
Turmeric is a high in soluble oxalate which can bind to calcium and form insoluble calcium oxalate, which is responsible for about 75% of all kidney stones.
There will be problems on long run .
- Curcumin has 0.025% oxalates. Insignificant.
You can get the powder from the curcumin supplement capsule (as I do , to avoid magnesium stearate and silicon dioxide of the capsule walls ) and mix it with a little amount of olive oil or with the fatty food.
Curcumin is very soluble in fat.
My wife and I always have a jar of goden paste (turmeric powder + olive oil + cloves + cinnamon + ginger + raw honey) in the house and we take a ling only because we like the taste. At the same time we are taking curcumin supplements for our diseases.
Indians (Indian physicians) have a certain mentality that I love and respect. I have often read statistics with the small number of cancers in India given to traditional daily powdered turmeric feed. But there is no possible comparison between India vs America( or Europe ) in terms of lifestyle, diet and daily habits.
One thing is certain: we can not fight our disease with turmeric powder only.
Until now, no one has done this and succeeded.

Hey Scuba what brand of tumeric/curcumin do you take? I think I am finally going to give it a try.

I buy the formulation - Curcumin C3 complex with bioperine - 1 gram caplets. It's the formulation used in clinical studies.

There are several manufacturers. Do an on-line search and usually you can find one on sale.

Bestvite is one seller. Another is physician naturals. Sometimes I'll order one or the other through Amazon or their own websites.