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COUNTER-COVID Study: clinical trial using imatinib in COVID-19 patients- Netherlands

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For those who may be worried about TKI suppressing the immune response regarding possible infection with this virus. This is an interesting clinical trial, brief details of which were shared via iCMLf with link to EU clinical trials register. Of course, the trial is for patients who are positive for COVID-19 infection and are not currently treated with TKI therapy. It's in the Netherlands and includes a placebo control arm.This may go some way to reassuring some of you.

Sandy

'.....there are suggestions (not yet proven of course) that TKI therapy could be helpful to prevent and/or to be efficacious in the early phases of the Covid infection (see a trial based on this hypothesis approved by EMA just yesterday ...'

Netherlands - Competent Authority
EudraCT number 2020-001236-10

COUNTER-COVID  a randomised, single-blind, placebo controlled, clinical trial in patients with severe COVID-19 disease

 

Thank you Sandy, this is very intersting.

Do we know of any trials involving Sprycel against Covid-19? (Maybe not because of the Plueral effusion side effect)

 

Hi TeddyB,

no I am not aware of any proposed trials using dasatinib to counter COVID-19 infection. This trial is using imatinib in the earlier stages of infection. It is interesting and hopefully it will prove to be helpful and stop people with CV-19 infection from developing any worsening of their symptoms and needing invasive intervention (mechanical) to improve their chance of survival. Of course imatinib may not prove to be helpful in circumstances where CV-19 infection threatens life. There may be other answers about why some people develop life threatening symptoms, when other do not. This is the more interesting aspect for me.

Sandy

"There may be other answers about why some people develop life threatening symptoms, when other do not. This is the more interesting aspect for me."

It is very interesting to me as well. It would be very interesting indeed if they would test vitamin D status on every patient coming who requires hospitalization. My working hypothesis is they would show very low vitamin D levels (i.e. < 20 ng/ml). Ultimately, a vaccine or treatment akin to Tamiflu is needed to prevent a return of this pandemic next season.

(The second wave of the 1918 Spanish flu was far more deadly than the first wave. I fear the same with Covid-19 unless a vaccine is developed prior)

Yes, I am hoping someone might eventually assess D3 levels to see if there is any connection to those who suffer more serious complications. I have just watched an interesting piece by Dr. Cameron Kyle Seidel, ER and critical care doctor from New York City.

His observation is that this is not like the normal pneumonias he has treated, but rather more like advanced cases of 'high altitude sickness' (anoxia) often seen in mountain climbers! Oxygen starvation. He feels they are treating it as a normal pneumonia and intubating too aggressively/early, this is why they are failing. It's just his observation and is calling for insights and feedback from other colleagues working closely with COVID-19 patients.

We are all in the dark on this one!

S

Thank you Sandy :)

Scuba: I added a D3 supplement to my daily intake a few weeks ago, unfortunately i dont know my baseline, but i can ask for it from my latest blood sample. That is, if they took D3 levels, i think they did, as i remember my ONC saying my vitamin levels were all within normal range.

mmmm...  what he recognises as 'normal' range is probably quite low compared with current 'non-status quo' thinking. Ask him for the range he is working to.

Sandy

Sandy is absolutely correct. Vitamin D normal range is set by statistical sampling of a reference population and observations made related to preventing rickets.

Any level below 20 ng/ml Rickets begins, lower cognition and potential for depression. Above 100 ng/ml hypercalcemia in the blood is observed (in some people).

So the question is what is normal vs what is "optimal". Optimal levels of vitamin D in the blood contributes to immune function, cognition and bone formation. We all want to see an optimal level - not just normal. Doctors focus on normal - I focus on optimal.

https://www.zrtlab.com/blog/archive/vitamin-d-reference-ranges-optimal/

Research has shown that peak immune function occurs when vitamin D levels are above 50 ng/ml and peak around 70 ng/ml. And this includes anti-cancer immune function. T-cells are loaded with vitamin D receptors (VDR). When a foreign virus protein is detected, the first thing T-cells do is find vitamin D and attach it to their vitamin D receptor in order to activate and attack the virus. This is why I believe pandemics - which always seem to occur in winter - are almost certainly associated with low vitamin D status of the patient. I wish they would collect data on this with all of the patients in hospitals having Covid-19.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23785369

++++++++++++++++

One area of my own personal research is in the role T-cells have in causing inflammation. Multiple sclerosis, for example, is a condition where T-cells attack the body. A delicate balance exists between T-cells expanding to meet a foreign threat and then have to shrink back when the threat is over. Sometimes they don't do that. Covid-19, for example, causes an enormous T-cell response in the lungs leading to over-inflammation, cytokine release leading to enormous amount of fluid filling the lungs. T-cells - can cure and they can kill. Amazing biology goes on in the T-cell.

High levels of vitamin D 'arm' T-cells to do their job. https://www.everlywell.com/blog/inflammation/vitamin-d-and-inflammation-...

And there is research that vitamin D helps in the fight against inflammation. But can high vitamin D levels for long periods of time also lead to some T-cells run amok? And produce inflammation in the longer term rather than lessen it in the short term. I don't know.

My thinking is to let nature guide me in the absence of data. What I observe in nature - It is normal for our vitamin D level to rise and fall with the seasons. And in areas where the seasons are steady (equator), it is normal for our skin to darken in order to lessen the amount of vitamin D created. I am not sure that keeping ones vitamin D at a 'permanent' high level (i.e. 70 ng/ml) is necessarily optimal. Letting it fall back to 40 and then rise again may be more optimal. It may allow T-cells to return to barracks and reload sort of speak. Or more likely, signal genes to de-activate T-cells in order to enable new ones. What is key is this is a longer term process over many months as the sun rises in the summer sky and falls in the winter. It is also interesting that vitamin D is stored by the body with a very long half -life of months. It take months to deplete your vitamin D levels and likewise months to increase it (should be done gradually). Natures way of following the sun? Perhaps.

One final comment - On a bright sunny summer day, after a few hours in the sun (e.g. at the beach) our bodies will produce the equivalent of 10,000 IU's vitamin D. This is a normal high level production that our bodies will do naturally. And they don't produce any more - once this level is reached, other mechanisms shut down vitamin D formation even if you remain out in the sun. Following nature, I never take more than 10,000 IU's in any given day. Keep that in mind. If you have to increase your vitamin D status, do so by taking no more than 10,000 IU's per day over many days-weeks and raise your D status slowly. Raising it suddenly is not good.

Thank you Sandy.

I have asked for my results, but will not get them until next week because of Easter, i am nevertheless continuing to take the supplements while waiting for my levels :)

Some pertinent and very interesting information from an individual member of one of the facebook groups that I follow. 

Someone contacted Brian Druker MD and asked him about the Counter-COVID study in the Netherlands. Most of you will know that Dr Druker along with others, worked to develop an oral treatment for CML and was a main instigator in the development of imatinib.  He was asked for his opinion about the Dutch trial using imatinib in the early treatment of COVID-19 positive patients.... I have copied Dr Drukers' very wise and plausible response below -      my italics and bold type.

  • "I so wish imatinib would help as we need better treatments as soon as possible. There were some articles that imatinib inhibited viral growth, but they used doses 5 to 10 times what most people take or can tolerate.  The Dutch study is interesting, but I’m also sorry to say that it worries me a bit. We know that imatinib leads to fluid retention and the goal of their study was to decrease this as a problem in patients with severe lung disease.  As such, I worry that imatinib may make matters worse.  I am always happy to be wrong, but it is my opinion that there are some better ideas out there.                                                                                                                                                                                                          
  • The international CML community has been tracking infections in our patients and there does not seem to be a higher or lower rate of infection or a better or worse outcome, but the numbers are extremely small.  With that in mind, my advice is to do your best with physical isolation. 

With very best wishes during these incredibly difficult times.
Brian Druker, MD"

Found this older study.

From what little i could take away from this, both dasatinib and imatinib seems to have some effect on Mers-Cov and Sars-Cov.

Nothing on covid19 though, but interesting, as i understand sars-cov and sars-cov2 bear some resemblance.

(The coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 is the pathogen that causes COVID-19. The virus has a close resemblance to SARS-CoV)

 

"We identified three inhibitors of the kinase signaling pathway,
two (imatinib mesylate and dasatinib) that are active against both
MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, and one (nilotinib) that inhibits
SARS-CoV only."