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Dosage change+ heart problem

Hi Everyone,
I haven't posted for a while but, after being on 200mgs Imatinib with results bouncing between MR4/MR4.5/MR5 for the past 6 years ( approx), I am now taking 100mgs. Not a planned decision but after having a rather nasty attack of atrial fibrillation (veering between 16 -195 apparently)which landed me in the Cardiac ward of the local hospital for 9 days, and my TKI being stopped by my haem, I am now on 100mgs. My haem says he doesn't know if the heart problem was caused by 14+ years on Imatinib but they are finding out more about our meds all the time. Hmm. Structurally my ticker is fine, just the electrics playing up.
So I am wondering how many of us have suffered this... My first BCR ABL blood test will be on Tuesday 10th and (hopefully) I will hear if my BCR ABL has gone up significantly although my phone appt isn't until Dec 18th. I am to have 2 blood tests between now and then so I hope any big change will be picked up.
Life goes on...
Regards to all,
Chrissiex

Chrissie,

Do you take magnesium supplements?

Chrissie

Very much hopes this stabilises the atrial fibrillation. Will be interested to hear how you get on - after being undetectable on 200mg imatinib for the last 2 years I'm planning a discussion with the consultant about 100mg. Best wishes. Alastair

Alastair, glad you are finally considering Imatinib 100mg ...

PS: you will also do well on 50mg.

Chrissie, I wouldn't expect your dosage reduction to 100mg to have any measurable effect on your BCR-ABL1 readings. Typically when CML levels are low for a prolonged period of time, (and yours are very low), TKI dosage doesn't seem to matter.

Buzz

No because my magnesium, levels seem within the acceptable levels - they are measured in the usual blood tests. Maybe I should take them?? My husband takes the ones conmtaining all 3 magnesium, types for his cramps after snapping his Achilles 6 years ago.
Best
Chrissie

Chrissie,

This is important.

Blood levels of magnesium are not a good indicator of sufficient magnesium because the blood must have proper magnesium levels to keep us alive and will "steal" it from muscles to make sure that happens (e.g. heart). I'll explain:

The ratios of sodium to potassium and calcium to magnesium in the blood are crucial for maintaining various physiological processes in the body. These electrolyte balances play a key role in ensuring proper cellular function, nerve transmission, muscle contraction, and overall homeostasis. The ratio must be maintained or the body suffers.

Sodium to Potassium Ratio:
Nerve and Muscle Function: Sodium and potassium are essential for the generation and transmission of nerve impulses and muscle contractions. Nerve cells, including those in the brain, rely on the movement of sodium and potassium ions across cell membranes to transmit signals.
Fluid Balance: The sodium-potassium pump helps regulate the balance of fluids inside and outside cells. This is crucial for maintaining proper cell volume and preventing cell damage.

Calcium to Magnesium Ratio:
Muscle Contraction and Relaxation: Calcium is necessary for muscle contraction, while magnesium is involved in muscle relaxation. The balance between these two minerals is crucial for the proper functioning of muscles throughout the body, including the heart.
Bone Health: Both calcium and magnesium are essential for bone health. Calcium provides the structural integrity of bones, while magnesium helps regulate calcium levels and contributes to bone density.

Imbalances in these ratios can lead to various health issues:

Sodium-Potassium Imbalance: An imbalance in the sodium-potassium ratio can contribute to high blood pressure, cardiovascular diseases, and impaired nerve and muscle function.

Calcium-Magnesium Imbalance: An improper balance between calcium and magnesium can affect muscle function, potentially leading to muscle cramps, spasms, and cardiovascular issues. It may also impact bone health and contribute to conditions like osteoporosis.

To maintain these ratios, the body will take electrolytes out of muscles to keep the blood level in balance.

You should be taking 400 mg Magnesium (as citrate, taurate or other, but NOT Oxide) per day. This will go a long way to restoring your "STORES" of magnesium back in muscle.

Scuba,
Thank you for this explanation. I am new to the forum but have read many of your posts.
Can you explain why not magnesium oxide? I just checked my bottle after reading your post and I've been taking the oxide form.
Thanks,
Winnie

Magnesium oxide has poor bioavailability compared to the other forms of magnesium (citrate, malate, glycinate, taurate)

Bioavailability:

Magnesium oxide has relatively low bioavailability, meaning that a smaller percentage of the ingested magnesium is actually absorbed and utilized by the body. Bioavailability is influenced by factors such as the form of the magnesium, its solubility, and how well it survives the digestive process.

Solubility:

Magnesium oxide is not very soluble in water. The solubility of a compound can affect its absorption in the gastrointestinal tract. Since magnesium oxide is not highly soluble, it may not dissolve well in the stomach, and this can impact its absorption.

Low Absorption Rate:

Studies have shown that magnesium oxide has a lower absorption rate compared to some other forms of magnesium, such as magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate. The body may struggle to absorb magnesium from magnesium oxide efficiently (~ 4% absorption rate ....very low).

(so why is magnesium oxide used and common: it is inexpensive and helps bowel movements because it stays in the gut. It is a laxative because it is not absorbed well)

Hi Scuba
First a massive thanks for the time you have spent replying to me.
I have looked high and low on the magnesium tablet box and leaflet to try to find out if it is oxide or not. All I can find is the following.....

Ingredients: Magnesium Carbonate, Magnesium Hydroxide, Magnesium Acetate + bulking agents et c
One 200mg tablet contains 53%. Nutrient Reference Value

All beyond me but would you say 2 tabs per day would help?

Hope all is well with you,
Best
Chrissie

Chrissie,
I would stick with magnesium supplements that are complexed with citrate, malate, turate or glycinate. The supplement you describe is more for laxative effects or as an antacid and will increase water into the intestines (counter constipation). The bioavailability is lower than the other list.

Hi Chrissie ,
I was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation earlier this week . My ECG looked as if someone had been doodling on it as the line was so crazy ! My consultant has stopped my Ponatinib for now and started me on Apixoban plus a beta blocker. My BCR ABL levels are high and I've recently been referred to transplant team to discuss options . Like you , I am worried about a rise while off TKI's. The atrial fibrillation has come as a complete surprise and seems to have occurred fairly rapidly. They are assuming it's due to high dose Ponatinib which I have been on since February. Also my potassium levels are low so that might be part of the problem.
Wishing you good health. As you say , life goes on .
Mary