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Feeling great off the drugs

Hi Everyone

After a rough 6-7 months after developing a pleural effusion from taking dasatinib for 2 years. I was given imatinib in February but although the pleural effusion didnt get any worse on imatinib it did not go away. Following two more months on imatinib and still the pleural effusion did not go away - it was decided that they would take me off imatinib. After 3 weeks of being drug free the effusion started to go and now after a further 2 weeks I have to start taking imatinib again tomorrow.

My point is that I have had the most wonderful five weeks not being on the drugs and had forgotten how it felt to feel normal.. Everyone keeps commenting on how great I look and I feel 20 years younger.

I am now dreading going back on the imatinib tomorrow, as I don't want to go back to feeling tired and puffed up eyes, but at the same time I know the drugs are saving my life, but it is such a shame they can make you feel so unwell.

In fact I was not aware whilst taking them how unwell they made me feel as I suppose it is a gradual thing and after the shock of finding out that you have leukaemia and accepting that you are ill.

I have made the most of my time I have partied and had a great time and actually forgot that I was ill, which has been great

But back to reality tomorrow!!!

Jacqui

Hi Jacqui
I can imagine how you are feeling,I was diagnosed 3 weeks ago and have been on Imatinib 400mg for a week now. What i would like to know is, does everyone feel sick after taking it, and any tips on how to avoid this? Also what is best to take for headaches? I feel quite rough on the tablets like a permanent hangover, but as you point out it is saving our lives hopefully! You mention the shock, i still can not believe i have it. I am fully active 53 year old and never smoked etc, would love to be able to chat with someone else who understands as i do not want to keep on talking about it to family as it worries them. Does anyone know the rough prognosis eg how long you can survive after diagnosis? Various websites show very different outcomes. Would love some hope that i could still be around in 20 years time for my family!
Good luck Jacqui when you go back on the tablets, hopefully you will feel ok this time.

Hi there

Welcome to the club no one asks to join...

As many will tell you, it all takes a lot of getting used to and none of your reactions to the diagnosis, or those of your family, are unusual.

In answer to your various questions, yes nausea is a common side effect especially at first but it does get better. I found the key was to work out the best timing for me, and it varies from person to person. What you need to do is take it either with or after a proper meal - not a snack. I found it was best about 30 mins to an hour after my main meal in the evening. And with a large glass or water or something - at least half a pint. That way I rarely had nausea even at the beginning when it was far worse. Some people say avoid too much fatty food when taking it, or dairy products, and I did find it best to have it after a meal with something starchy like potato or pasta.

As for headaches, I would speak to your haematologist. Different people have been told different things about ibuprofen and paracetemol (and see Sandy's recent post about ibuprofen). I was told that both were ok so long as taken only for short periods, and to avoid taking the full paracetemol dose. The reasons were that ibuprofen is harsh on the stomach and so is imatinib, so the two combined are not ideal. And paracetemol is metabolised in the liver, as is imatinib, so avoiding putting too much strain on the liver was the reason for moderating paracetemol intake. So, what I do is basically carry on as normal but being a bit careful. For headaches, both work though I have to say ibuprofen is generally better (paracetemol is better for temperatures).

As for prognosis, haematologists are cautious people and I've never been given one. However, the perceived wisdom seems to be that if the drugs work and you can take them (compliance is very very important) there is no reason why your CML will alter your life expectancy. In my own case, I am lucky in that I was diagnosed in May 2009 and became undetectable by PCR within 6 months, and have remained there. I've had no intolerance issues and have never missed a dose.

Good luck and be positive. Prospects generally are so much better than they were, and there are options/ other plans if imatinib doesn't work for you (though it works for the majority).

Richard

Hi Jacqui
I know exactly what you mean! It is as if the fog has lifted and you are human again. I have had to have a few breaks from Dasatinib because of the pleural effusion and it gets harder each time to go back because you want to stay 'normal'.
I have just been offered Ponatinib if the pleural effusion comes back again (which I think it is) so I imagine I have all the pleasures of some new side effects to look forward to...
K

Hi Karena

It's so nice that you know how I feel and "human again" is such a good way of explaining it. I have been bubbly and happy and living life to the full!!!! but when I am on the drugs I feel a little drepressed and tired. Make the most of breaks, I am hoping I can look back on my five week break and it will give a smile to my face I am 46 but i felt 26 it was great.

I was hoping to go on nilonitab when the dasatinib caused the effusion as I have heard the side effects arent too bad.

Hi, sorry you have now had to join our club, but you will settle into life with CML I am sure. My first year i read every single positive thinking book out there - it was very comforting to me. I have two children, who when I was diagnosed on the 9.9/2009 were 7 and 9 and I felt just like you. I wanted to be there for them. Nearly three years on and even with my recent difficulties I feel quite positive that I will live a relatively normal life and my life expectancy will be good. The side effects are manageable in all fairness and do get better after a few months. Be kind to yourselve - if you are tired rest if you can. I havent suffered headaches but I do know you should drink plenty whilst taking the tablets. Sickness I get slightly but I am going to take them with my main meal from today. I suffered more of bone pain in my legs and a foggy head sometimes but the worst is insomnia for me which I am working on.

Please try not worry, although I know just 3 weeks into diagnosis you will. It's a lot to take in and I am sure your thoughts are all over the place, but hopefully you will get some comfort in joining this forum and it's a great place to direct your thoughts.

Best wihes to you

jacqui

Hello Richard and Jacqui

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, you are the first people i have talked to that are fellow sufferers of CML and believe me your comments are extremely reassuring. I keep wondering how i could have it, i still don't believe it sometimes and just can't believe that i have something that only 600 people get a year and keep asking why me? We all dread the cancer word, i always thought of the other obvious ones but never ever even considered Leukemia. After reading everything i can however i feel lucky in a way that it is this paticular one, as it appears to be one of the most treatable cancers there is. I wish you all well, and hope we can all live long healthy lives and maybe one day they will find a cure. I have blood tests in a couple of weeks to see how the Imatinib is working, feels like living in limbo at the moment! I will try tomorrow to make sure i eat plenty before the dose and see if that helps,

J

Hi Jacqui

Thank you for your reassuring comments, i have replied in more detail to both of you below.I understand totally how you feel about your children, it must have been terrible for you. Mine are older but the worst thing i have ever had to do was telling them, us parents want to be round forever to protect them and the grandchildren

J

Hi J,

Like Richard and Jacqui have said, you will find support from members of this forum who will help you to come to terms with your diagnosis.
Whilst it is true that the incidence number is around 580-600 people diagnosed with CML in the UK every year, the prognosis is now very good and, so good that prevalence number- i.e people living with CML in the UK (and the rest of the world)- is growing every year. This means that although CML is rare as well as life-threatening there are increasingly more people living with the disease in the long term than at any time prior to 2000 and the introduction of TKI therapy.
Re prognosis, below is a snip from an article (find the link on the home page) which should reassure you.

"The expanding options for front-line treatment in patients with newly diagnosed CML"
Abstract
The past decade has seen remarkable advances in the treatment of chronic myeloid leukemia (CML). The discovery of the underlying cause of CML, a chromosomal translocation resulting in the expression of an aberrant tyrosine kinase, has enabled the rational development of targeted therapy with tyrosine kinase inhibitors (TKIs).

The first available TKI, imatinib, dramatically improved survival rates and demonstrated the potential for long-term treatment. A number of additional strategies have been tested to further maximize outcomes in patients with newly diagnosed CML, including newer TKIs, imatinib dose escalation, and combination therapy.

The advanced, more potent TKIs, nilotinib and dasatinib, have proven effective for newly diagnosed patients and for those who experience inadequate response or intolerance to imatinib. Randomized phase 3 studies have shown that nilotinib and dasatinib are more efficacious than imatinib in achieving primary study endpoints.

Nilotinib was superior to imatinib in the rate of major molecular response at 12 months; dasatinib was superior to imatinib in the rate of complete cytogenetic response by 12 months.

These phase 3 studies are ongoing to further define longer-term efficacy and safety. Research on additional contributing signaling pathways in CML, T315I mutations, and other causes of treatment resistance has identified additional potential treatments that are now in early stages of clinical development, with encouraging preliminary results.

With continued advances, it is conceivable that the ultimate goal – a cure for CML – is in our sights."

So, it is more than likely that you will live your normal life span and will not die of CML- providing you continue to take imatinib (or any other TKI) every day.

The way to counter the major side effect- nausea - is, as Richard has already advised, to take imatinib with your largest meal of the day, which is for most people, dinner.

Drinking lots of plain water is essential, in addition to other drinks such as juice, tea coffee etc.
By the way, grapefruit- both fruit and juice- should not be eaten/drunk when taking imatinib as it can increase the plasma levels of the drug and cause increased side effects. Some people do continue to drink grapefruit juice but at a completely different time of day from when they take the drug.

All in all, the side effects are manageable for most people, and as time goes on you will learn how to counter any that you might suffer, in your own way.

Be careful with painkillers- it seems from recently published research that ibuprofen actually blocks the cell uptake of imatinib. Paracetamol is OK, although you should never exceed the dose as recommended- but that goes for everyone, even those without CML because paracetamol overdoses can damage the liver. Imatinib and other TKIs (nilotinib and dasatinib) are metabolised by the liver so you can see why you should be aware of other drugs you might take- particularly 'over the counter' drugs.

Good luck with your upcoming test results,

Best wishes,
Sandy

Hello again
I tried Nilotinib but I seemed to be one of the unfortunate ones who struggled with the side effects so I didn't last long on that. I actually like Dasatinib these days as it seems the lesser of all the evils but if (when?!) i try Ponatinib maybe that will be the one for me!
Hope all goes well and let us know
K

Karena

Im with you, I wish I could go back on dasatinib, but they wont let me because of the effusion

Jacqui

Karena,

I will be attending the EHA (European Haematology Association) conference in Amsterdam next week and will find out more about the side effect profile of ponatinib. I will let you know what the major ones are. All the TKIs have differing side effects. I am not aware that ponatinib is any worse than the others.... however, it does seem to be very effective.

Best,
Sandy

Hi,

I'm happy to chat. 01745 334202. On Imatinib 6+ years now. Terry.

Hello Sandy
Thank you for you very informative and reassuring comments. I am now taking the tablet with my evening meal and lots of water, so at least i am not feeling ill all day, just for 3 or 4 hours after taking it which is bearable! The headaches have eased a bit too, more like just a sort of hangover head rather than a migraine. I have not needed to take any painkillers yet, and will speak to the doc next week to see what he advises.I will get my first lot of results soon and feel more positive about it all now.

J

Hi Terry, sorry for late reply, only just saw your comment. I will give you a call in a few days, thanks