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Please be cautious of Quercetin

Interested in real life experience:

Has anyone taken Quercetin and dasatinib (Sprycel) and had their BCR ABL decrease further? I am concerned that it could be bad for CML response.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6218402/
“Unexpectedly, D+Q alone appeared to have acute pro-tumorigenic effects in control mice.”

Also on Web MD: if you add quercetin to imatinib or nilotinib (not on any other TKI) it says : “ Quercetin will decrease the level or effect of Nilotinib by affects how the drug is eliminated from the body (via what is known as the P-glycoprotein [MDR1] transporter).”
https://www.webmd.com/interaction-checker/default.htm

I know I am taking a small sentence out of a study and comparing apples and oranges and that my TKI dasatinib is not listed as having a side effect, however I think many of us might be supplementing despite unknown side effects. I am not concerned about aging, just wanting to actually have the privilege of getting old in the first place (most dasatinib/quercetin studies are age related). My BCR ABL increased when I added quercetin. I have since stopped every single supplement except for D3K2 because I am a bit freaked out, not only by my higher number but also with how I am feeling (which might be anxiety),… I have tingling in my legs again which was the reason why I went to the doctor when I was first diagnosed with CML. Really praying the next BCR ABL gives me peace of mind. I will update you with my next BCR ABL number which come out beginning of August.

Please be cautious everyone! I feel the need to warn people.

Thanks!

Heidi S, in that you have had a less than optimum response on Sprycel 100mg after almost four years of treatment, you are likely now experiencing a plateau around the MMR level. During plateaus at low CML levels it isn't at all unusual to see an increase in CML level from any given PCR test for whatever reason.

Posting your testing history would be beneficial to others.

Thanks in advance,
Buzz

I do not think my BCR ABL numbers would be very informative and frankly I do not feel like going through and typing it all up. As you pointed out, I have obviously plateaued and I totally understand that there is error and standard deviation involved (which is maddeningly never posted). I have been below MMR for about a year and after quercetin, I am above MMR. If quercetin helped at all with CML, I doubt this would have happened. My fear is that it actually did harm and prevented Sprycel’s full effectiveness.

What worries me the most is the sudden change in how I am feeling. On quercetin: excellent sleep, better skin, more energy, but eventually I got the pain in my legs again. Off of quercetin now: skin dry, worse sleep, less energy, and I am sore (it takes alot for me to be sore because I exercise regularly). The pain in my legs has not gone away either and my anxiety is absolutely awful right now. I cannot help but feel that if I never would have taken quercetin, my numbers would be below MMR and my legs would not hurt. The sudden and dramatic changes I noticed on quercetin leads me to believe that it was minimizing the effect of Sprycel (which is why I felt SO good for awhile).

I am legitimately curious if other people who were not yet in DMR had number decrease while taking Sprycel and quercetin. For one, it would really calm my nerves at the moment. Living life in three month increments is wearing on me and summertime with all four kids at home will be difficult. As a mom, I have to be in the moment with my kids, which means my husband gets all of my bottled up emotions at night after work. This is just hard and I want some reassurance.

I am sorry. I hope I didn’t come off as rude. I am glad someone is responding. I am tired, frustrated, and scared. Thank you for your posts.

Hi Heidi,

I will prepare a more detailed response to your question. No supplement, alone, is going to end CML. Supplements are not cures. It is entirely possible, for example, that you may be losing response to sprycel (I don't thinks so without a trend developing) and quercetin has kept it from exploding higher. Just saying that attributing movement in PCR up or down exclusively to one thing (i.e. taking or not taking quercetin) is not a reasonable conclusion.

Quercetin is a natural anti-oxidant found in food (i.e. onions, fruits & other veggies). The benefits of quercetin are well known. The study you cite is done using cells in a petri dish. This is in contrast to most studies using animal models and living tissue. In vitro studies are often poor substitutes for in vivo studies. One study alone should not be definitive, but I do understand your concern.

I take quercetin every day. I took it with Sprycel for years before I entered TFR. During that time my PCR levels oscillated around MMR, but trended down eventually becoming undetected. I no longer take sprycel and have been in TFR for over three years now when I started my cessation trial, but I continue to take quercetin every day - now mostly for its anti-histamine and other benefits you cited earlier. I take quercetin and my CML has not returned. Does that mean Quercetin is preventing CML's return? No. It's only one element in my approach to maximizing health. But do I believe proper dosing of vitamin D3, zinc, quercetin, selenium, curcumin, vitamin k2, magnesium and eating a high fiber, low sugar diet helps in preventing CML from returning. I absolutely do. We're all different in the most subtle of ways, but we can tip the scales I believe. You will be fine. Take to heart one very important statistic - anyone achieving complete cytogenetic remission (PCR < 1.0%) have a 99% 5 year survival rate indistinguishable from patients who are undetected.

On a side note:
Interestingly, I am considering taking sprycel again (low dose I still have on hand) with quercetin to test the combinations reported in its anti-senescent cells (anti-aging) impact.

I will list the references in a follow-up post for your information. They will contrast against the reference you cited. Unfortunately in biological research, often times study results are in conflict with each other leading to inconclusive interpretations. It's the nature of science. But over time, clarity can develop. Here is one study regarding Quercetin which is later (2021) than the one you posted (2018) which has opposite results: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8124534/

p.s. for my age, my skin is AWESOME. Is it quercetin? probably vitamin D3, k2, curcumin, magnesium, biotin (oops forgot that one) and yes, quercetin

2 days ago I started quercetin, let’s see how it goes. From what I read, up to 1 g per day with periodic breaks should be okay. I plan to go month on - month off and keep an eye on iron level and thyroid function. All the warnings came from in-vitro or mice tests with large or unknown quantities used.

There is no data on how it affects dasatinib against CML.

My next BCR test is scheduled in a month.

1 g quercetin
500 mg bromelain
1 g vitamin C
1.5 g curcumin

Synergistic Induction of Apoptosis by Quercetin and Curcumin in Chronic Myeloid Leukemia (K562) Cells: II. Signal Transduction Pathways Involved

https://europepmc.org/article/med/32420759

Synergistic Effect of Quercetin and Vitamin C Against COVID-19: Is a Possible Guard for Front Liners

https://europepmc.org/article/ppr/ppr239932

Be careful if you are taking drugs such as antibiotics, cyclosporine, warfarin, or drugs that are changed by the liver. Quercetin may change how these drugs work and raise the risk of side effects.

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/quercetin-uses-and-risks#....

Pregnant women, breastfeeding women, and people with kidney disease should avoid quercetin.

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/supplement/quercetin#

These data confirm that quercetin can act as a thyroid disruptor, and they suggest that caution is needed in its supplemental and therapeutic use.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24447974/#:~:text=These%20data%20confirm....

Specifically, during short- and long-term settings, oral quercetin generally caused iron depletion and this was evident from the significantly reduced absorption rate of non-haem iron, reduced liver and spleen iron pools and levels of duodenal iron transporters.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-018-1680-7#:~:text=Spec....

Quercetin is not soluble in water, however, so it is a poorly absorbed nutrient. Bromelain, a protein-digesting enzyme extracted from pineapples, increases the absorption of quercetin, as does vitamin C.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quercetin#:~:text=Quer....

The quercetin paradox is that in the process of offering protection, quercetin is converted into a potential toxic product.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17537471/#:~:text=The%20quercetin%20para....

Because stability of the various thiol quercetin adducts appeared a matter of minutes to hours instead of days, this rapid transient nature of possible quercetin quinone methide adducts may also restrict the ultimate toxicity to be expected from the quercetin quinone/quinone methides.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12870884/

This is interesting because the experiments are performed on monkeys rather than the usual mice. The quercetin was taken orally, but the quantity was not specified. The usual problem with quercetin surrounds bioavailability.

Benefits of Dasatinib and Quercetin Treatment in Monkeys dated 02 June 2023

https://www.lifespan.io/news/benefits-of-dasatinib-and-quercetin-treatme...

This is a retrospective cohort study.

"This retrospective cohort study found that dasatinib used for the treatment of malignant disease may have an antidiabetic effect comparable to or perhaps even greater than that of contemporary antidiabetic medications in patients with preexisting T2DM."

I suffer from CML (controlled by dasatinib) and diabetes (controlled by metformin). My diabetic control is very good (HbA1c is 6.2%). I am reducing my metformin to lower the loan on my kidneys.

Antidiabetic Effects of the Senolytic Agent Dasatinib

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/pb-assets/Health%20Advance/journal...

I am taking a supplement that contains the following:

Lipsomal Quercetin (phytosome) 800 mg
Bromelain 100 mg
Vitamin C 20 mg
Turmeric 15 mg
Zinc 15 mg

This is a bit of a punt because I do not know whether this is sufficiently bioavailable to be helpful.