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Low platelets, low WBC. First post

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Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum. I am 69 and live in London.
I was diagnosed with CML in January this year. I spent six days in hospital. Was told I should live a normal life span, and came away taking 400mg of Imatinib a day. In early June 2022 my BCR-ABL was down to 11%. However I stopped taking Imatinib as I was not tolerating it in terms of cytopenias. In June I had another bone marrow biopsy. In early July my BCR-ABL was back up to 53%. I was started on 300mg of Bosutinib. On the 1st August my blood test results showed my platelets were 8, and my WBC was about 1.7. I cannot remember the neutrophils result, but it was low. I am not sure what my BCR-ABL was at that point.
To me that looks like two failures.
On Wednesday 3rd August I had a platelets transfusion. On Friday 5th August my platelets were up to 29.
I am not sure what comes next. From reading this great forum, looks like others have had similar issues.
I am due to have another bone marrow biopsy next week, unless my blood counts are a lot better.
I was also wondering if I should be having a lower dose of the drugs I  have been given. Start low and build up from there, giving my body time to adjust, and maybe stop my blood counts from ‘crashing’.
it is all a bit concerning
All the best to everyone

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul, welcome to this forum. Can I ask whether you took the decision to stop your therapy with imatinib, or it was your doctor who decided that you should stop therapy?

Sandy

Hi Paul,

I know what you are going through. I have been there and you will come through it!

In some sense, what is happening to you is "normal". I will explain and then offer a suggested path.

By the time we are diagnosed with CML, the cancer has had years to grow, expand throughout our blood system and displace normal blood formation. Unfortunately, we do not feel any symptoms of disease until just about all of our blood system has been replaced by a leukemic one. This is why at diagnosis, under the microscope, all a pathologist sees are leukemic white blood cells. We are sick because these cells are crowding out red blood cells.

When you start treatment (imatinib), there is a massive leukemic cell death. In addition, TKI drugs suppress normal blood formation. All TKI's do this. This creates a huge drop in cell counts leading to a hole in our blood, sort of speak. This is normal. It happens to everyone - but severity of myelosupression is an issue.

Once leukemic cells are killed, the body senses a need to build new blood and triggers normal (and leukemic) hematopoietic stem cell division and differentiation. The presence of imatinib keeps killing leukemic cells, but it takes time for normal blood cells to replace your leukemic ones. This is the problem. Speed of recovery is slower than leukemic cell death. But it can be managed and you will get through it.

The trick is to "coax" your body into replacing your leukemic blood with normal blood gradually. This will take a year (on average). The process involves step wise drug holidays (no drug) while your blood system recovers. Granted, your leukemic system is also recovering, but after you achieve a near normal blood count, you whack the leukemic system again. Normal blood keeps recovering and leukemic blood is in a stalemate. Eventually enough normal blood cells are dividing to compete with the leukemic ones getting killed and your normal blood takes over.

I do suggest you consider talking with your doctor about switching from imatinib to dasatinib (aka sprycel) low dose (20 mg) which is very effective at doing this. This is what my doctor did and he is one of 4 top experts in CML research.

Your blood counts will crater again after re-starting therapy and when it does, you stop therapy once more. You monitor your blood counts weekly for recovery and then resume therapy (again low dose). You may have to do this several times. I had to do this 4 times. I had a blood system crash (neutrophils fell to 0.1 - dangerous level), stopped therapy, blood system restored, low dose started, blood system crashed again (but not as bad) and so forth.

Eventually, your normal blood system will have recovered sufficiently so that when you restart therapy, your myelosuppression is not severe and you can live with it and stay on drug. At this point, your leukemic system continues to degrade and your normal system is back up and running.

Read the paper linked below which describes the protocol.

As it turns out - patients who suffer the most with myelosuppression tend to be the ones who respond the best once they overcome it. And with less drug (i.e. less toxicity and adverse events).

I was switched off imatinib to dasatinib (20 mg) to manage my crashing counts using the procedure above (dose interruption, low dose restart). It took me several months to achieve equilibrium and then my CML counts crashed - all while on low dose. I eventually became "undetected" and have now been without any drug and staying undetected for over a year. This can be your future.

Be vigilant. Have your blood counts measured weekly - and as soon as they are high enough restart therapy. Test, monitor, stop, restart as your normal blood system takes over and you keep whacking CML with each restart. Talk to your doctor using Dr. Cortes' research about switching to low dose dasatinib upon restart. You can always increase drug dose if it proves insufficient as well as change to other  drigs. But I have a suspicion your will respond well.

 

Hello Sandy,

Thank you for replying. The decision to stop imatinib was my doctors. Other than my low blood results on both imatinib and bosutinib, I did not have any other side effects. I feel I am lucky in that regard. 
I did stop taking imatinib for ten days in mid February because of an ‘overshoot’ in terms of platelets. Then restarted imatinib again. It crossed my mind that I should have been taking a lower dose. But then I’m no doctor.

thank you again Sandy
 

King regards

Paul

Hi Scuba,

Thank you for writing. Your explanation and words are very encouraging and comforting.
Your advice to start and stop therapy makes so much sense, as does having weekly blood tests to monitor the situation. I realise you recommend using dasatinib, but do you think any other of the TKI’s on a low dose would work as well or almost as well using the stop start method? I am thinking this way in case my doctor is not keen for some reason on prescribing dasatinib. 

You almost need to become your own doctor. 
 

Thanks again Scuba

regards

 

Paul

Just an update from my previous message last August. I was off Bosutinib for over three months for my blood counts to recover. From a bone marrow exam on the 17th August, which was sub optimal, there was no blood excess and BCR-ABL by fish was 27%. I had a blood test on the 5th September 2022, which showed Haemoglobin 103, WBC 1.6, Neutrophils 0.46, platelets 15.

I had another bone marrow examination in November 2022. This exam showed no 'normal cellular, with no dysplastic features'. Blood counts finally improved. Haemoglobin 117, WBC 3.46, Neutrophils 2.12, platelets 97. Increasing bCR-ABL 73% by FISh and 22% by PCR. I was started on 100 mg of Bosutinib daily on the 21st November.

Had a blood test last Friday being the 20th January 2023, which showed my blood counts heading down again. Haemoglobin 128. WBC 2.59, Neutrophils 1.44, platelets 38.

The doctor has said my bone marrow is super sensitive to the TKI's, which has been seen before but is quite rare. From today I have been instructed to stop taking Bosutinib. I have an appointment in two weeks. Look like I will be starting on asciminib at some stage.

A mutation has been mentioned as being 'myeloid NGS gene variant screend picked up a mutation ASXL1.

I would like to take Scuba's advice to go on a low dose of dasatinib, but it feels difficult to contradict the doctors advice. I will keep that up my sleeve.

So that is me for now. All the best to everyone.

sorry, second line should have said there was no blast excess, not blood excess

Hi Paul,

Re: ASXL1 gene.

From what I have read and understand (very little) ASXL1 is a tumour suppressor gene. It certainly complicates the picture. As you live in London, I assume/hope you are being treated at a CML centre of excellence such as Imperial College (Hammersmith) or one of the other well regarded centres. Have you had any further information from your clinician about how the identification of the (loss) of this gene might affect your response to TKI therapy? 

I am sorry I can't give you much more knowledgeable advice, but hopefully asciminib will be available to you?

Sandy

Hello Sandy,

Many thanks for writing

I didn’t know I had too much to worry about until you mentioned ASXL1 could be complicating matters. Hmmm. Now I have googled the gene it doesn’t sound so good.

The ASXL1 gene was mentioned after a bone marrow examination last July. The letter I received from the hospital says…’Myeloid NGS gene variant screening. Picked up a mutated ASXL1, which could explain cytopenias as it can be associated with myeloid disorders such as dysplasia. However, his aspirate and trephine were of poor quality, so couldn’t really comment on the presence of any dysplasia etc.’

I have an appointment at the hospital on Monday 6 February, where I am expecting to sign for asciminib. Not sure when I will be starting on them yet as it will depend on my blood counts going back to normal. I am with UCLH on Euston Road. I shall ask the doctor more more about this gene when I se him on Monday. I hadn’t thought about it much before now.

I shall report back at some stage to report how things are progressing.

Many thanks

Paul

Hi Paul, You should definitely ask detailed questions of your doctor. I have been treated at Imperial College Hammersmith since my diagnosis in 1999. I eventually showed resistance to imatinib in 2003 and for various reasons I went on to have a stem cell transplant (mini-allograft) which was successful. I have been free of CML since testing negative in 2006. 

Please let me know if you need any advice after seeing/questioning your doctor. 

Sandy

Hello Sandy,

Thanks for your message.

As you probably remember, I had a hospital appointment with the doctor today. Had a blood test first. Then to the doctor.

We were told from the blood test that the disease looks like it has progressed and on to something worst,
possibly AML. I will be having another bone marrow biopsy in the next week to get a clearer picture of what is going on.

I won't be going on Asciminib now by the looks of it. The doctor considers that a stem cell transplant was not likely to be offered

because of my age, even though I am healthy in every other way.  Anyway we shall see.  Another face to face appointment is being arranged for the 27th February.

Of course my wife and I were quite stunned to be told this news. I'll keep you posted

All the best

Paul